This Charlotte Mason podcast focuses on the subject of citizenship beyond the study of Plutarch. Are Mason’s ideas about the state and the citizen outdated or irrelevant for our students today? This discussion focuses on the subject that studies government, economics, and moral responsibility in the Mason feast.
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“The honour due to our country requires some intelligent knowledge of her history, laws, and institutions; of her great men and her people; of her weaknesses and her strength; and is not to be confounded with the ignorant and impertinent attitude of the Englishman or the Chinese who believes that to be born an Englishman or a Chinese puts him on a higher level than the people of all other countries; that his own country and his own government are right in all circumstances, and other countries and other governments always wrong. But, on the other hand, still more to be guarded against, is the caitiff spirit of him who holds his own country and his own government always in the wrong and always the worse, and exalts other nations unduly for the sake of depreciating his own.” (Vol. 4, Book II, p. 121)
“Children familiar with the great idea of a State in the sense, not of a government but of the people, learn readily enough about the laws, customs and government of their country; learn, too, with great interest something about themselves, mind and body, heart and soul, because they feel it is well to know what they have it in them to give to their country.” (Vol. 6, p. 187)
“It is probable that the education of the future will recognise, as its guiding idea, Matthew Arnold’s fine saying, that “The thing best worth living for is to be of use.” Every man and woman will be a candidate for service beyond the range of his or her own family.” (Vol. 5, p. 447)
“[In Form I] Children begin to gather conclusions as to the general life of the community from tales, fables, and the story of one or another great citizen.” (Vol. 6, p. 185)
“[In Form II] Citizenship becomes a definite subject rather from the point of view of what may be called the inspiration of citizenship than from that of the knowledge proper to a citizen, though the latter is by no means neglected.” (Vol. 6, p. 185)
“There are few better equipments for a citizen than a mind capable of discerning the Truth, whether it lie on the side of our party or on that of our opponents. But this just mind can only be preserved by those who take heed what they hear, and how.” (Vol 4, p. 154)
“Civics takes place as a separate subject [from history], but it is so closely bound up with literature and history on the one hand and with ethics, or, what we call every-day morals, on the other, that the division of the subjects is only nominal.” (Vol. 6, p. 274)
If you would like to study along with us, here are some passages from The Home Education Series and other Parent’s Review articles that would be helpful for this episode’s topic. You may also read the series online here, or get the free Kindle version from Fisher Academy.
Ourselves (Volume 4)
Towards a Philosophy of Education (Volume 6), pp. 185-189
The Citizen Reader (Used by Mason in the PNEU, Form 2)
Uncle Eric series by Richard Maybury
Gerald Johnson’s Books on the government: The Presidency, The Cabinet, The Congress, The Supreme Court
(Contains affiliate links)
Audio Version of Charlotte Mason’s Ourselves (Volume 4)
WOW! Fabulous episode! It really helped clarify for me how Plutarch fits into this all.
So are the books your linked (Uncle Eric series and the Gerald Johnson books) what you would recommend for citizenship? For which forms? I'm just trying to get a grasp on how this subject would lay out next year, for my form 2 student and my form 3 student.
Hi Heather!
I am going to add these and make notes about the forms when I can grab a little time later, but until then, I like Genevieve Foster's "Birthdays of Freedom" (Two volumes) to be used throughout all of the three years of Form 2–they are short, 1-3 page spreads on various aspects of historical liberty that informed the founders of America as they planned and organized our society and government. Uncle Eric's series and Gerald Johnson's are both great for Forms 3-4 (7-9th grades) and beyond.
-Emily
Hi Gals! Lovely episode! I was priming a room while I listen and was so encouraged! Thanks for clarifying this subject for us!
Hello!
Do you have a suggestion for a good book that would explain the difference between all of the "-isms"? (i.e. communism/socialism/capitalism/etc.)
Thank you! You ladies are helping make our homeschool lessons so much better by fleshing out CM in such detail. 🙂
We're glad we make your handiwork even more enjoyable!
What age student are you think about, Kelly?
I really appreciated your discussion of Ourselves and how it fits into citizenship. I've been reading it with my daughter and we're getting a lot out of it, but I hadn't considered the place it fills in her overall study. But if we can't get our will and impulses functioning properly and under a certain level of control, we will never be able to do the work that we can to do – and we will certainly not be able to do a very good job of it!
I listened to this episode last weekend on the way to the airport from our CM Retreat and it was excellent fodder for narration and conversation. Listening to the podcast in community like that was so enriching! And we made sure to tell everyone at the retreat (multiple times!) how great and helpful this podcast is. Thank you for doing this!
Amber,
I hope the retreat was refreshing and do thank you for spreading the word about the podcast to your friends and acquaintances. Ourselves is a rich treasure trove for student and mother and worth rereading for life, as well as to fill out a balanced study in citizenship.
-Liz
Well, any age really – looking for something very simple with basic explanations. I would use it for sure, but also for a Form II student (11yo) that I would read with him.
I need a pretty thorough re-learning of history!
Thank you!
Kelly,
I think any worthy spine history account will cover the development of the various "isms" you want your children to learn about at the age appropriate for them to be introduced to them. My son and I recently finished the Gerald Johnson "America Moves Forward," which discussed a little of Marx, the Russian Revolution, European Fascists, etc., as they came into play in the world wars. Try to remember to introduce ideas in their context. There is time ahead in high school for more in depth study of these economic philosophies in depth. I appreciate that your own vague recollections make you feel anxious not to miss important areas of knowledge, but as we are trying to always emphasize, relationships develop from single ideas, ideas connect to ideas, and the systematic progress through the basics will definitely lead you in the right directions. Trust their minds to find the knowledge they need.
Liz
Gerald Johnson also has a specific title called "Communism: An American's View" which would be a good resource for yourself. For high school, Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" will give a more thorough account.
–Emily
Thank you both. I agree with you, Liz, about my son. I am only now realizing that it is really I who want to know and understand the -isms. My son and I are reading that very same book you mentioned and it was the talk about Karl Marx and Russia that made me realize that I need to understand it better and have more time for study than our read-aloud time (he is content with learning things as they come naturally). He has a far better grasp of history at his age than I ever did as a student! It's a blessed child who is educated the CM way.
Emily, the books look just right for me – thank you!
Kelly,
Glad to hear the books will work for you. You are probably at the point I was when I realized that I was going to have to personally invest in time to deliberately read on subjects that would deepen my understanding and widen my own circle of knowledge–not only for my children's education, but because I wanted more education myself. As your children become independent in various subjects, you may be able to use some of those minutes to read yourself while they are working on their own lessons. It is not only our children who are blessed in this way of educating.
-Liz
Thanks so much for clarifying that Emily! I found Birthdays of Freedom used for a good price for my form 2 student, and have decided on a Johnson book (or two?) for my form 3 student.
I did have another question… How does the book "Ourselves" work into the citizenship schedule along with Plutarch and a government book? If I'm remembering the episode correctly, citizenship was scheduled for 30m in forms 2 and 3. I want to be mindful to not to overload my student, but also provide that wide range of subjects.
I get so excited reading of all these diligent mothers spreading the feast for their students! What a wonderful heritage!
In the PNEU students read Book 1 of ourselves over the 3 years of Forms 3 & 4 and then Book 2 over the 2 years of Form 5. That is a treasure of a book–I hope you get to enjoy it alongside your students.
Emily
The Citizen Reader -by Forster. I know you've said not to use this as an American – however I am British and this book is available seconhand on ebay and amazon – is it worth me getting? or would you say it is too old now to be of use?
Thanks
Jo in the UK.
PS your podcast is just amazingly consolidating and reassuring for me trying to implement Miss Mason in our family. Thankyou for it and the time and effort it costs you, and for the delight that you inspire us with.
Hi Jo,
How wonderful to live near the source to still find many of those old resources. If I were you, I'd probably pick up the book. Even if you have to provide your child with some updated changes that have occurred in your government since the time of its publication, I suspect there is some more than relevant material about the duties and responsibilities of a citizen that would change your country for the better if more people lived by them. I'm sorry I can't speak more knowledgeably about British government or that title, but think it might be a great resource.
-Liz
Do you see these different facets of citizenship all working in to lesson times? I love that you are including some government and even economics in with Plutarch and Ourselves, as those are resources that I really valued with my older kids, but back then I ended up backing off Plutarch to make space in the day for those. Where do you see it all fitting in to the day? Obviously they don't need to do all of that concurrently, but could you give some examples of how it might look in real life across the forms?
Personally I like the idea of reading Plutarch in pairs with the comparison, so I'm thinking maybe if I did a pair of lives each year, then for the rest of the school year the remaining time for the citizenship lesson could be used for some government resources (with something like Hazlitt's economics for older high school years). (With Ourselves so ongoing, it easily fits into a short weekly lesson time to digest in small bites over many years.) But I'd love to hear other ideas.
Also, I've really enjoyed the handful of Uncle Eric books we've used over the years, but there are so many more (especially the history ones) I've never even seen. What are some of your more preferred ones?
~ Stacey
Stacey,
Government and economics were introduced more in the high school years. In those years, the citizenship time was actually a bit longer on her timetables. In addition, unless you also are studying three modern languages, as her students may have done, you should have plenty of time to add an extra 30 minutes somewhere in your morning lessons for such studies in addition to Plutarch. We don't always see Plutarch all the way through what would be our equivalent of twelfth grade.
Mason did have children reading a Citizenship book, and unfortunately, our American counterparts are lacking, though we do have a few suggestions for elementary/middle school years.
We like the Maybury books too, but also Gerald Johnson's books: The Presidency, the Cabinet, The Congress and The Supreme Court.
I do not think Mason used any lives comparisons at all, though an interested student could certainly read those on his own.
-Liz
Do you have any recommendations for other living books on economics? Thank you.