In today’s podcast we are taking a close look at Charlotte Mason Bible lessons for high school students. Which portions of the scripture did Miss Mason reserve for our oldest students? How are they equipped to continue reading the Bible on their own after the full feast of Bible lessons from their whole education? And where do they go from here? Listen as we discuss!

Listen Now:

Charlotte Mason, Volume 6 (Amazon) (Living Book Press – use code DELECTABLE for 10% off!)

ADE Vol 6, Chapt 10 Reading List

Scripture Journals (ESV and CSB options) on Amazon or here

The One Volume Bible Commentary JR Dummelow*

The Saviour of the World by Charlotte Mason (Amazon for Vol 1-3 or Riverbend Press for all 5 volumes)

The Gospel History of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by C.C. James

ADE Bible rotation

ADE Schedule Cards

Episode 128: Form 1 Bible Immersion Lesson

ADE on YouTube

*For OOP (out of print) or hard to find texts, try BookFinder.com

Emily
Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I’m Emily Kiser and I’m here with…

Liz
…Liz Cottrill…

Nicole
…and Nicole Williams. 

Emily
As we continue exploring a Charlotte Mason curriculum, we have made it to Forms 5 and 6, which is Grades 10 through 12, and their Bible lessons. So, Nicole, will you remind us what portions of the Bible these students study in their last years of high school? 

Nicole
Yeah, things change a little bit now. Their Bible lessons expand again. By this point, students have moved through nearly the entire Bible narrative, and now they’re ready to engage with more challenging books and kind of finish off some of the things that they haven’t got to yet. 

So in these upper years, students no longer follow a chronological storyline. Instead, the focus shifts to the prophetic and the poetic books. So they’ll read Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, along with the minor prophets like Hosea, Amos, and Zechariah. And they complete the entire book of Psalms over the course of three years. So there’s some mashing up going on here. And the final term adds in the book of Job, even. 

And then just note there that I feel like this demands more of the child. Again, we’re looking at a child who has had all this foundation and is ready to deal with some of these deeper books. In the New Testament, the student reads from the epistles and the revelations. Paul’s letters to the early church, the pastoral letters and the general epistles from Peter, James, John, and Jude, and then Revelation, and that completes the entire New Testament. They will have read all of it at that point. These texts help students explore not only the doctrine, but the theology and the Christian living. I really think it pulls in all of that, how faith is worked out in community and suffering in the face of cultural pressures. So really a greater maturity is required to read these books. 

Alongside their New Testament readings, students continue the Saviour of the World, which we’ve talked about in previous episodes. These again are Charlotte Mason’s retelling in verse of individual episodes in the synoptic gospels that are read alongside a harmonized account of the Gospels. And one thing I didn’t note in the last episode is that all the students who would be in any level to be reading this Saviour of the World would all be in the same place. So as they rotate through, as new children come up into this, they’re going to be at the same place as their older brothers and sisters, or the older kids in the class. So…

Emily
Yeah, it is robust, isn’t it? 

Nicole
It is. It’s beautiful when you think about what they will have accomplished and just really the deliberateness of it. You know, how many people do we know that have never finished reading the Bible? And with this scope and sequence, there are just four books that aren’t included. One is 1&2 Chronicles, but that really dovetails with 1&2 Kings. So they have covered that and…I think I did write it down somewhere. 

Emily
Did they leave out Daniel? 

Nicole
No, Daniel’s read. I think Leviticus. And Song of Solomon.

Emily
Leviticus is covered slightly in the tiny bit, but it is in there a little bit. Okay. 

Well, not a lot changes as far as the frequency of their lessons. They still do four Bible lessons a week at this level, but they do get longer. So they’re 30 minutes instead of 15 or 20 as the younger kids. So they have a bit more time to deal with these meaty books. Again, it’s the same format for Old Testament to New Testament, and we alternate Old Testament, New Testament, Old Testament, New Testament throughout the week. And they still have Bible as the first lesson of the day, just like all the other forms. So that format is going to stick with them after 12 years. Like “this is the first lesson that we do”.

And then again, just as in form three and four where they had a lot more other theological books assigned, church history or whatever they may be, those were viewed or intended to be read as Sunday reading. Because you’ll notice there’s no Sunday reading portion on their programs. It’s just all that extra stuff. 

Which, Sunday reading, I don’t think I even said last time, but that was just special reading that was set aside for Sundays to, you know, when everyone kept the Sabbath or whatever you would have specific occupations to do on that day of the week that you didn’t do other days. 

Okay, so looking at the individual lessons, just as in forms three and four, these can mostly be independently done by the students themselves. Students will use the same methods as the lower forms, the reverent, expressive reading, even if it’s to themselves. They’re going to recall the last lesson at the very beginning to form the links in the chains, you know, bring forward what they’ve done before. And then they’re going to narrate in the words of scripture. 

But the addition is that they use a one volume Bible commentary, which I think it’s still in print. There’s hundreds of copies available used. It’s just been in print for a really long time. And I’ll show you that in a minute. But before beginning a book of the Bible, they would read the introduction from the commentary. So if they were going to study Isaiah, they would read the introductory essay article in the commentary on Isaiah before they began reading Isaiah. And then after reading the passage for the day, they would narrate and then they would read the corresponding notes for those verses or those chapters, whatever they read from scripture, they’re going to read the commentary after they’ve read and narrated from scripture. And that is similar to in forms three and four as well. 

So this is for the Old Testament, the New Testament, and then basically it is for Saviour of the World, except instead of a commentary, that’s where they would read the poem. So they’re going to start the day by recalling the last lesson. They’re going to read from the gospel history, that harmonized account of all of the gospels, the passage that will be covered in the poem or poem set to be read that day, and they would narrate the Bible from the gospel history. And then they would read the poem. And then you would probably have subsequent narration and discussion as well.

In addition to the introductory articles, there are some in the beginning of the commentary, there’s some just general Bible context articles and those were assigned as well in turn over those three years. So they would read a significant portion of this Bible commentary. 

So the lesson objectives for forms five and six, Charlotte Mason said, “thus they leave school with a fairly enlightened knowledge of the books of the Bible”. And I think we’ve seen that with this scope and sequence from not just forms five and six, but all along. And she said it was aided by biblical scholarship, having the commentary again, like we talked in form three and four to introduce those ideas or to have the commentary to work through some of those troubling or seemingly contradictory parts of the Bible. And Charlotte Mason believed that would give him such a confidence in the authority of scripture. 

She also said that “they would have an increased reverence for and delight in the ways of God with men”. So they will have read much of what we have recorded for the ways God has personally interacted with humankind. 

And then thirdly, “that the person of our Lord as revealed in his words and works becomes real and dear to them.” So they know God and they know specifically their savior. 

And lastly, she says, and all of this is just one extended quote. I just thought I’d pull out like four separate objectives here. But lastly, she says, “loyalty to a divine master is likely to become the guiding principle of their lives”. So that’s our aim in all of these Bible lessons. 

As far as teacher prep goes for lessons, again, just as I said before, even though our students are becoming more independent and they’re really wrestling with these texts themselves in their lesson time, I think Charlotte Mason would tell us we need to have an understanding sympathy with our students. And we can do that by preparing to discuss with them, especially at this age and as they deal with some of these…yeah, there’s a lot of sorrow and hard things in the books that they’re going to be encountering. I’m thinking of the prophets, but I’m also thinking of Paul and his letters and what people in these early churches we’re going through that is going to be things that they’re probably going to come up against. And so this is a rich environment to have conversations with our children before they leave our home, you know, about these very real things. 

But again, Charlotte Mason advised us to avoid preaching at our children. She said that there was a danger in provoking them to form a counter opinion, and if we were to do that, if we were to come down too heavy handed about this is what this means or no, that’s wrong and I think this, or even just to apply it to their lives ourselves bluntly, that we are actually putting them in a greater danger to doing opposite of what we would like to see them do with their life. Instead, Charlotte Mason encouraged us to let scripture point the moral out to them directly. So we’re again, not the showman of the universe here, just like in other subjects.  We are letting the text, the biblical authors and God himself, interact and speak directly to them through the books that they read. 

As far as resources, again, I love using scripture journals and this is the one for Psalms and I just brought it you can see. They still make scripture journals with just one book in it when it’s a huge thing. Some of the epistles are teeny tiny and they put three or four of them all together. So those are still an option.  And what a nice library that they will have, especially if they do take notes, like to have lots of space as they rustle through these texts. 

And then this is the Bible commentary that Charlotte Mason assigned. It’s by J.R. Dummelow. He’s the editor. It’s a one volume Bible commentary. If you’ve been reading along with us in Chapter 10, you read an extended quote that the author or the editor himself writes about it. And Charlotte Mason says we can’t add on to it, and just how parents are maybe skeptical about using a resource that’s not from their specific denomination or tradition. Just know this is one commentary on the entire Bible. It does not have time to get into partisan denominational quibbles. This is very general and I think that is the benefit to using one. And again, you used this a lot. 

Liz
It’s very succinct. It’s just the main ideas in each book of the Bible. It doesn’t have time to go into a lot of side trails. 

Emily
Yes. Charlotte Mason said it was a very practical value, in that it just covers the principal difficulties of the passage that the child is going to encounter and hopefully will have questions about. But it doesn’t take one or other of the extremes that she says, no, this is where she’s quoting what Dummelow says, that his aim, which was “to find the spiritual value and authority of the Bible have been enhanced rather than diminished” in the discussions. 

Okay, so that’s that. And then just like in Form 3, Saviour of the World, again, this is the edition from River Bend Press, but there are some paperback editions. It’s also available online if you prefer to read online. So there are six finished volumes, and so they read one a year for all six of the years that they’re in Forms 3 to 6. And just like you said, whoever is reading Saviour of the World is reading the same volume together. And then the Gospel History of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by C.C. James is the harmonization that Charlotte Mason used as the inspiration for the poems in Saviour of the World. 

And then we have created a few resources. The first is the Bible rotation. So we have everything that they cover by term for forms five and six, and then also the sections of Saviour of the World that they would cover in a term. So that is a free resource that we will link in the show notes. And then I will just mention briefly our schedule cards. We have these for all of the forms so you know how long and how frequently, many times a week to do each lesson. 

Liz
And if you have children that are of different ages, sometimes moms are concerned how they can do all these separate Bible lessons. So again, just to remind you that these students of this age are independently reading all of this and it’s wonderful if you can keep up with them and be reading that yourself in case they do want to discuss something and the Savior of the World lesson could be done with Children in the last six years of school so they would still at least have that one New Testament day together. And just as I said with forms three and four, when you have younger children sometimes because the older students have a longer day, at this point in high school they have four hours of lessons, so perhaps they would start before the younger children begin their day so you might have two sessions of bible but some of you have many sessions of math lessons every day too. Right?

I find so many questions, various concerns come up about the Bible lessons. But I think we’re going to get to that next week. And I think as far as the upper grades, you guys have pretty much answered everything right?

Emily
Can you think of anything else somebody would want to know? Why don’t they read the Song of Songs? 

Nicole
Hahahaha.  

Yeah, I don’t know. I think it’s…probably just pretty, I mean, I just find it very exciting to watch your older kids grapple with the Bible in such a robust way when we know that it can be hard even for adults to do that and the habits that we’re setting with them through this are just hopefully going to serve them for a lifetime. They will know how to work with the Bible, how to use a commentary, how to use articles.

Liz
It occurs to me too that they find, you know, there’s whole sections of the Bible that are neglected in being read by most adults. And when they have had to read them for school, they’re not going to be as intimidated about entering back into Hosea or Micah or other prophets. 

Emily
Maybe they’ll even be curious about it. 

Liz
It’s just like every other subject we’re planting seeds for their future knowledge quests that they go on. There was something you said earlier too about them having a confidence and I find this across the board with my home school graduates who’ve done Charlotte Mason, just a general confidence. But if you are faced with questions about the Bible and the validity of it and that you have truly read all of it, you’re not thinking, did I omit? Did I not read that part? Is that in there somewhere? And I don’t know what’s in there. But no, they know what’s in there. And they’ve taken it slowly over these years. They do know what’s in the Bible. 

Emily
That is such a good point. Yes, I think I have heard many people who talk about college students going off and losing their faith because somebody challenges something that they were taught, opposite of what they were taught and says, but this is what the Bible says, or it’s in there. I just saw one in a TV show the other day, just all these things. And I’m like, you’re just missing the whole point, right? And having that bigger picture in context. Yeah, it does lend such a confidence. 

Liz
Yeah. And Charlotte Mason said they are going to have more doubts and questions if they have not read it than if they have.

Emily
So we hope that you can see how robust and thorough their Bible education really is.

Thank you for joining the conversation today. You can find links to all of the resources that we’ve mentioned today in the show notes, including a demonstration lesson that the three of us did with a Saviour of the World scholar. And you can hear how a whole lesson plays out with the commentary as well in that episode. 

So we invite you to read along with us this whole season. The reading schedule link is also in the show notes. So next time we will conclude our series on Bible lessons as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method.

How do Charlotte Mason Bible lessons change as students get older? Join us for today’s discussion on the podcast as we turn to middle school students and answer some common questions like, why can’t we continue Bible lessons with the whole family? And how can I help facilitate separate Bible lessons for my older students? Tune in to hear some insight to help navigate these issues, and more!

Listen Now:

Charlotte Mason, Volume 6 (Amazon) (Living Book Press – use code DELECTABLE for 10% off!)

ADE Vol 6, Chapt 10 Reading List

The Old Testament History by Costley-White and Hardwich (online version or hard copy at Living Library Press)

Commentary on the New Testment: The Four Gospels by W. Walsham How*

Scripture Journals (ESV and CSB options) on Amazon or here

Acts of the Apostles by Ellen M. Knox

The Gospel History of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by C.C. James

The Saviour of the World by Charlotte Mason (Amazon for Vol 1-3 or Riverbend Press for all 5 volumes)

ADE Bible rotation

Bible: Forms 3-4 Lesson Breakdown

ADE Schedule Cards

Episode 128: Form 1 Bible Immersion Lesson

ADE on YouTube

*For OOP (out of print) or hard to find texts, try BookFinder.com

Emily
Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I’m Emily Kiser and I’m here with…

Liz
…Liz Cottrill…

Nicole
…and Nicole Williams. 

Emily
All season long, we are exploring a Charlotte Mason curriculum and we are in the middle of our series on what Charlotte Mason thought was the most important subject and supreme knowledge due to a child, Bible lessons. Today, we are looking at the next group of forms, Forms 3 and 4, or grades 7 through 9. Students in these forms basically do the same work as one another, right? 

Nicole
Well, three and four, yes. Yes, in form three and four, the students continue reading the Old Testament, but now they’re reading it for themselves. And so you’re going to talk later about what they would use to facilitate that so that the omissions are made. But they’re still following a clear chronological path in using these resources. 

One important note is that I’m going to describe the full rotation that the students in Form 3 and 4 move through chronologically, but you don’t necessarily have to start at the beginning. You know, Genesis is the beginning of the rotation, but if you just finished Genesis, or that student just finished Genesis in Forms 1 and 2, they could pick up an Exodus or whatever that actually looks like. 

Emily
And subsequent children will jump into where older children are in that rotation. 

NIcole
Yes. So again, as long as we’re moving forward, we’re doing fine there.

Like in Forms 1 and 2, the students read from Genesis to Kings, but while the content covers much of the same narrative, students in Forms 3 and 4 encounter a broader scope and greater depth with the readings. The readings are longer, for one thing, and they are more layered because the rotation weaves in the prophetic books alongside the historical ones, allowing the students to connect not just with the historical events but also the prophets who wrote about them and interpreted them.

Some of those books that they read were Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and Nahum. And then they also read some of the books from the post-exile. So that was kind of a new thing. Daniel, Ezekiel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Malachi, Esther, and Jonah. This rotation is just shy of four years. So three and two terms, I think, is what we have. Again, students will just, you know, rotate back through when they get done. And maybe they will miss a little portion of something possibly, but that’s not to worry because we still have Forms 5 and 6 to go and they’ll get covered. 

Emily
And you’re saying that because they’re only in Forms 3 and 4 for three years. 

Nicole
Yes. 

Emily
And so if this rotation is longer, they’re not going to make it through the whole time. 

Nicole
Exactly. Right. So now in the New Testament, students begin a deeper engagement there also, and they read for themselves the entire book of Acts and the gospel of John. Acts takes two years and John takes one year, so they are taking it slowly and really dealing with that.

But don’t worry, they’re not leaving the synoptic gospels. They are reading them and they are using Charlotte Mason’s own poetry to do that now, very slowly reading them alongside a harmonized version of the synoptic gospels that you will share more about in a minute. 

It is very fitting, I think, that after they have studied for six years those synoptic gospels, really learning those stories, that they are now primed and developmentally ready to deal with them in a little bit of a different way, a deeper way. So really lingering on each episode. 

Emily
Yeah that’s true. 

Well I’m gonna cover the lesson format and just as I have said in previous episodes remember volume six is not a comprehensive teacher’s manual. It was absolutely necessary for the readers back when Charlotte Mason released it as well as us now to study the programs and see it, because she’ll leave out whole parts. Actually if you are looking for forms three and four in this section of volume six chapter 10, you’re going to not even pick up until the very last paragraph after you’ve talked about Forms 5 and 6 that they’re doing Saviour of the World, right? So just know that we’re drawing from those programs to give you a fuller picture of how things are. 

Forms 3 and 4 have Bible lessons four times a week, just like Forms 1 and 2 did. And it’s the same two Old Testament and two New Testament and alternating. So you do Old Testament, New Testament, Old Testament, New Testament through the week.

Their lessons get a little bit longer, so instead of 15 minutes they have 20. And it’s still the first lesson of the day.  Now in the programs we see a whole lot of other books assigned than the ones I’m going to talk about lessons for, and those Charlotte Mason mentions are good for Sunday reading. So these are books on church history and other theological books that they were assigned, so those are not fitting into their typical morning lessons. So we’re just sticking with those as I talk about the format. 

So for an individual lesson, I think the biggest change, and you’ve mentioned this, is students are going to be reading for themselves. They were each to own a copy of the Old Testament history, which I’ll show you in a minute. They had to have their own copy of Saviour of the World, the poems, and also the commentary for their New Testament reading. I think she’s assuming everyone has a Bible to read from as well.

So the note from the programs at the top of all of form 3/4 Bible lessons says “in all cases the Bible text as given in the books used Must be read in the narrative first” so when they did Acts they were not assigned…she didn’t say read these chapters of Acts for this time. She gave page numbers out of the commentary for Acts that was assigned but that note tells us no, they were to be reading the section from Acts in the Bible that that portion of the commentary was going to be covering. 

Students could work independently or a teacher may set up a lesson or even listen to them read aloud. Just because a child is reading for themselves doesn’t mean they’re reading for themselves in isolation necessarily, right? And if you have a group of students, they’re absolutely working together, taking turns reading, but they have their own copies to follow along in. Of course, we want to have trained them by this time to recall the previous lessons, so they’re making the hooks in the chain or the links in the chain that Charlotte Mason talks about. It should be a habit that they just know after six years of doing it that that’s what we do. 

And then they were to read the Bible passage as set by those lesson books. So if it’s Old Testament, it’s coming actually out of the book that also contains the commentary. I’ll talk more about that in a minute. But if it’s Acts or John, they’re reading the portion out of the Bible text for the day, and then they narrate that first. And they’re again supposed to use as close of language as possible. Charlotte Mason actually talks about that in this section, believe, of chapter 10, that that becomes just a second nature for them to do that. And it’s wonderful that that language has gotten into them. 

So basically, she says the big process of our method of lessons doesn’t change. The children are reading reverently, but now they’re reading reverently to themselves or aloud to one another instead of, you know, relying on the teacher to do that. And we still only do a single reading before narration. So then after that Bible was read and narrated, then they would read the commentary for that section. And then they might have some more narration or discussion that they want to do. So again, these lessons can happen with a teacher present, but the main work of the reading should be done by the students. 

Now that is for their Old Testament lessons and it’s for their New Testament Acts and John. I’m going to describe The Saviour of the World lesson because that one is just a little different. It has a lot more parts to it I think. So The Saviour of the World is Charlotte Mason’s narrative poems on, really reflections on, Bible passages and she doesn’t just go through each gospel. She used a harmonization called The Gospel History written by C.C. James. And so that portion is all text of scripture, but it’s harmonized from all four gospels. And it will literally tell you which part is from which one and which verse. So it’s just a harmonization. And that is what she uses as her source material for writing her poems. 

And so she wanted students to read and narrate the portion of The Gospel History, which is the Bible words, before they were to read that and narrate it, before they read the poems. And you can find tables in the back of Saviour of the World that tell what portions of The Gospel History correlate. There’s also tables online that you can find as well. I think we have them linked in our Bible episode. We’ll throw links in the show notes here. 

So they would read and narrate the passage for the day that came from the poems, from the Gospel history, then they would read the poem from The Saviour of the World, and then they would narrate and discuss the whole lesson. Because they’re going to hopefully get new ideas about that passage from the poem. She said that they were, the poetic nature of the language helped give them those new ideas, and she thought they were specifically well-fitted to deal with things in poetry that they wouldn’t necessarily from prose alone. 

We do have notes of lessons for a Bible lesson at this age that seems to be an introduction very heavily directed by the teacher to the life of Paul and the world at his time. And I think that would be an excellent thing to do before you dive into reading Acts or the portion of Acts that covers Paul’s journeys. So you could do a similar lesson in place of that from the straight reading of the text on occasion, but that’s not every time. Most of the lessons are going to be this reading and narrating from the scripture and then adding the knowledge from the commentaries. 

So our lesson objectives are very much the same as Form 1 and 2. We want to make sure our children are getting new thoughts of God. And they’re also hopefully having a deeper understanding of the Bible itself. And they also, and I think this is where Charlotte Mason is just brilliant. She knows they’re going to start having this critical debating, challenging, you know, the things that they’ve been taught. They’re trying to struggle and work things out for themselves. And she thought it was very important that we not shy away from difficulties in the Bible or perceived difficulties we might have, or even some of the criticism ideas that were very prevalent in her age, but are, you know, we have different ones, but they’re still very important. And those, if when our children leave, if they never encountered that and they just hear from us, the Bible is 100 % reliable, which we believe it is, but you know, it’s no error, all this stuff. And then they come up against some of these ideas that question things that really can undermine the faith foundation that we’ve been trying to instill in them. So she thought that into the books that she was using are bringing out some of those ideas, just again, in a very general way, not getting into super…different denominational quibbles but kind of broad issues with the Bible as a whole and she thought that if they dealt with these in the context of their Bible lessons that that would give them confidence in the reliability of scripture rather than undermine it, right? 

Liz
So basically you’re saying what one of the differences besides that they’re being more independent, right, is that the two New Testament days have different content.

Emily
Yes, which is always very hard to explain and I hope you can follow along here. 

So as far as teacher prep, even if your students are going to be working independently or more independently, I really do think it is important, and I get this idea from Charlotte Mason, that the teacher have an understanding sympathy with their students and also we know they’re going to be wrestling with some more heavy passages and ideas about the Bible as a whole. So I think it rests on us to be familiar with what they’re going to be reading so we can have discussion with them. And really even keeping up with that on a weekly basis. 

I have maintained the same process that I’ve done for all of my elementary years and prepped like the week’s Bible lessons together for myself before teaching them. And so I think that’s a really helpful practice. Sometimes it has to be just the day before, but you just need to carve out some time to make sure you’re up on that. And then that might give you an idea of, hey, you know, today instead of you reading this passage, I think we’re going to talk about what is going on in the world at this time. 

So let me show you briefly the resources that we have. This is a reprint of The Old Testament History by Costley-White and Hardwich. This is not just the commentary; it also contains the text and Charlotte Mason talks about this book extensively here as well as…I think she talked about it in volume three, but it’s mostly here. And these you can find online, but since this is the text students are actually reading I know most of us prefer to read from real books, physical copies, Living Library Press has begun reprinting these and has the first three volumes available. 

I do also think since students are getting their own, or they’re reading for themselves, giving them a scripture journal for their Bible lessons would be excellent. You can even use it to mark, you know, where they’re supposed to read to or whatever if you’re forecasting out their lessons for them. And again, Charlotte Mason talks about that in volume one, that that would be a good plan to give a child so that at the end of their education they have a whole library of the books of the Bible, not just in one.  But they may want to jot down notes. You know, this is kind of taking ownership of their lessons in a different way than before.

The Acts of the Apostles, this is what was assigned. And again, this does not contain the Acts scripture at all. It’s just commentary on it. So you would read the scripture first and then read the commentary portion of it. This has been reprinted by Yesterday’s Classics, but is also available online. 

I have not found a reprint of the commentary that she used for John. It’s the Four Gospels or Commentary on the New Testament: The Four Gospels by Walsham How. And we will put a link to that in the show notes because it is available online. 

And then Saviour of the World. This edition is published by Riverbend Press and each volume is a beautiful sewn binding. It’s going to last forever. And it does have some pictures of art in it as well. So that’s The Saviour of the World.  There are other editions, I think the first three are in a very inexpensive paperback edition on Amazon. And those are very nice as well. And then this is The Gospel History of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by C.C. James, that harmonization of the gospel. So you would read this, narrate the passage, and then read the poem or poems that correspond to that passage in The Saviour of the World and narrate the whole thing.

Liz
And that poem is kind of like her narration, but they will be asked more as they get older to sometimes do their narrations or themes in verse. And so it’s a little bit of help along that road for them.

Emily
Yes, and you see some poetical narrations included in this portion of volume 6. 

Liz
And she said, I believe here in chapter 10, that poetry can sometimes give us even more potent ideas than writing in prose.

Emily
To help you remember all of this, we also have a free Bible rotation that just shows you at a glance all of the parts that they’re doing. So Old Testament, New Testament, extra books that were assigned. You might want to find a comparable resource from your own denomination as you do that for Sunday reading. And then also it includes The Saviour of the World Breakdown by term.

And if you want even more help than that, we do have Bible breakdowns for Form 3 and 4 Bible lessons for all three of these streams: the Old Testament, The Saviour of the World, and the other New Testament lesson a day. And those forecasts I should say also include exam questions for each term, so that’s another thing that you do not have to prepare for. And we do have our ADE schedule cards that tell you how long and how frequently, not just Bible lessons, but all lessons can be at this stage. 

Liz
And speaking of scheduling, I think this is one of the perplexities for a lot of moms. You’ve had your little ones and you’ve gotten used to those form one and two lessons with your younger kids. And then all of a sudden the oldest one has gotta move on. And this is kind of sad for moms. Well, let me tell you that never stops. You’re always a little sad when your children grow up and become independent and begin to do things on their own, but of course it’s a critical thing as the Bible is the most important lesson. It’s especially important for a 12 or 13 year old who’s moving into seventh grade, or Form 3, to begin to take ownership of this Bible lesson. But how do you do it when the younger kids still need their lessons? And there is more than one way to accomplish this, but one common way that seems to work for a lot of families is that the older student who actually at this point has three and a half hours of school every day and not just three, that they actually begin school before the younger children do. So if your start time is nine, they might start at 8.30 or just whatever it is in your family. And that way, if you do sit down with them and accompany them with their lesson, even though they’re reading on their own, but want to have some conversation with them, that works pretty well for most moms. And then the younger children can just begin at the normal time, while the older one goes on to do something independently. 

But we are working toward independence. I mean, that is our goal, right? That our children, when they finish school are able to cope with their own life themselves. I just thought I should bring that issue up because that’s a common question. 

Emily
Can you think of any other concerns or questions at this age? 

Liz
I think you should not worry that it’s going to be super overwhelming for them because even though there’s more reading it isn’t beyond their ability at that age.

Emily
It might be a good push. 

Liz
Yeah. And you know, some children are reluctant to leave the safety of mom being more in charge and they resent even sometimes they want independence and they don’t want independence. 

Emily
I did find a note, there’s several notes at the end of every program, and one common one at this level is that forms three and four can work together in all history lessons, which is including scripture. Charlotte Mason considered this a history because it is, we’re reading the history of God’s people. So just to know if you have a ninth grader and a seventh grader, even though mostly they reserve John for ninth grade, they would jump into that. 

Liz
Oh yes, so if you have a seventh and a ninth grader, the seventh grader might actually begin with John. Because as Nicole keeps pointing out in these episodes, we always move forward. But it doesn’t matter where you get on the merry-go-round because it is a cycle. So you’re going to come around to these things again.
Emily
Thanks for joining us today. Next week, we’re going to continue the conversation as we look at high school Bible lessons in Forms 5 and 6. You can find links to all of the resources we discussed today, including a demonstration lesson episode on The Saviour of the World. Now, we did that for high school, so there’s an added component. But if you’re really floundering at this age and going, how did these lessons actually look, we have that for you. So we invite you to read along with us Chapter 10 of Volume 6 as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method.

This episode of the podcast focuses on what Bible lessons look like in elementary school. You’ll learn how often and for how long Charlotte Mason Bible lessons last at this age, how to teach the lessons, and we will share some of our favorite resources with you.

Listen Now:

Charlotte Mason, Volume 6 (Amazon) (Living Book Press – use code DELECTABLE for 10% off!)

ADE Vol 6, Chapt 10 Reading List

Paterson Smyth commentaries

Scripture Journals (ESV and CSB options) on Amazon or here

Bible Art Resources:

• Bible Picture Portfolios
• Bible in Art: New Testament, Richard Muhlberger*
• Bible in Art: Old Testament, Richard Muhllberger*

Bible Atlas Favorites:

• Holman Bible Atlas 
• Golden Bible Atlas*

ADE Bible rotation

Bible: Forms 1-2 Lesson Breakdown

Episode 128: Form 1 Bible Immersion Lesson

ADE on YouTube

*For OOP (out of print) or hard to find texts, try BookFinder.com

Emily
Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I’m Emily Kiser and I’m here with…

Liz
…Liz Cottrill…

Nicole
…and Nicole Williams.

Emily
We are working our way slowly through Chapter 10 of Charlotte Mason’s Volume 6 all season long and we invite you to read along with us. The link to our reading schedule is in the show notes. 

So last week we started our series on Bible lessons in a Charlotte Mason curriculum and today we’re going to focus in on what those lessons look like in forms one and two, or grades one through six.  Elementary school. So Nicole, would you share what portions of the Bible children cover at these ages?

Nicole
Yeah, so in the Old Testament this journey begins in Genesis and it moves forward with selected stories from Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy…Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings. And in this chronological sweep of the Old Testament narrative, children then learn about the patriarchs, the exodus, the wilderness, the conquests of Canaan, judges, and the early kings. So they’re really getting a lot of it. The PNEU programs, while they have just very small changes to them, like they stopped at this verse rather than this verse, it really was a set rotation. But we do have a rotation of this that you can access. We’ll link to it in this episode. 

Also to note that forms one and two, so that’s six years, families would have to cycle back through again. So this is a three-year rotation for these students and they would go back through again.

Emily
Well, and Old Testament is actually even four, right? And they cycle through.

Liz
So it’s a little different. Four for the old, three for the new.

Nicole
Yeah.

Emily
And with that, not every student is going to begin with Genesis, right? They’re just going to jump into the –

Nicole
Yeah, you have a younger, you know, now your child is in third grade and you have a first grader coming up, they’re just going to jump in where you’re at as long as everybody’s moving forward. 

So in the New Testament, these students, Forms 1 and 2, would cover the Synoptic Gospels. So they would have Matthew, Mark, and Luke, along with the first eight chapters of Acts. So it usually was about a year for each one of these – Matthew, and then Mark actually got combined with Acts; it’s short. And then Luke was the next year and then the cycle begins again, so you’re going back through. Nothing is rushed here in these lessons, but the stories are chosen kind of deliberately so not everything is included. There are omissions made which I’m sure you’ll talk about.

So this is from the creation to the early church that the children are using to start their Bible education, getting very familiar with.

Emily
And she specifically said narrative portion. Like, you when we get to those genealogies, we’re not reading those.

Nicole
Right.

Emily
And some of the more very scandalous stories that are included in the Bible are not covered in their Bible lessons for school because the children are narrating them.

Nicole
Right. Right. 

Emily
OK, so just before we go on, I just want to remind our listeners, we’ve talked about this in previous episodes, but volume six is not a comprehensive how-to teaching manual that we wish it was, right? And so we are also, as Nicole’s just pulled from, like you’ve been going back looking through the programmes, that’s how we developed our Bible rotation that we put on the website. And so it’s a summary.  It’s just not comprehensive. And so there are some details that she doesn’t talk about at all that we’re going to see in the programme. So we need to remember that she is referring her readers of volume six to the programmes. And so that’s what we have done for you.

So I’m going to cover the lesson format. You just gave us the big picture of all of the Bible that they’re going to read in these ages at these form levels. But what do lessons actually look like? Well, Bible lessons are weekly four times a week.  She did not do Bible every day. They did two Old Testament and two New Testament lessons each week and they rotate. So we do four out of five days. Charlotte Mason’s students did six days of school and she did Bible on four days but we’ve cut that. And at this age, Bible lessons are 15 minutes long and that includes every part of the lesson that I’m about to share with you.

Also, Bible lessons we see on every timetable that we have, they are the first lesson of the day and that was very intentional on Charlotte Mason’s part. All other parts of the time table would move around. She did math at beginning, math at the end, whatever, but Bible was always first because she thought that that gave the children the idea that the Bible was their most important lesson of the day.

So moving now, so that kind of gives you the framework for the week, but each individual lesson, every lesson, a short passage is read – about 10 to maybe up to 20 verses, but that would be really long. Charlotte Mason in volume one tells us that the passage that we read should cover a whole episode if possible. I know just with my own children reading about Balaam that was a many, many days lesson because we could not get through the whole passage in a single time.

And so each lesson covering that short passage begins with asking the students to recall what the previous lesson was. This is very important. Charlotte Mason talks about it linking the chain to the previous knowledge. We’re pulling that back to our mind and then continuing on. So they really are getting this consecutive knowledge of whatever subject they’re doing at school. So that is the same in Bible.

And then the method really can vary a bit. There is not a system. You don’t have to check every little part off because the passage is going to somewhat dictate what we have to do with it, right?  So, Charlotte Mason actually in this part of volume six mentions beginning reading from the commentary where the passage is pictorially treated. If we take that as “always begin every lesson with the commentary”, we’re gonna go, why did she want us to do this? It seems counter to…he’s writing the commentaries that she used, which I’ll share more about in a minute, to the teacher of Sunday schools, right? And this is not even in complete sentences, but I think the key is in that where the passage is pictorially treated. So he is really good at, he’ll say, “close your eyes and picture this” and he’ll give a description of what the setting was or some cultural custom that we would be unfamiliar with. So we’re not reading the whole of the lesson in the commentary, but just those vivid descriptions of setting. And Charlotte Mason in Volume one affirms what I’m interpreting here. She says that occasionally it might be a good idea to read a portion of the lesson. So for some, we just want to have some kind of setup of a lesson to get our children in the framework. Sometimes that could be a map or a picture and it’s not even part of the commentary.

So then the teacher reads the Bible passage, always reading the Old Testament. Sometimes they could read the New Testament for themselves because they’re not skipping verses or whole sections that they might be. But she said it was very important, and this is a habit that we’re going to start with them in these years and they’re going to continue it for themselves for the rest of their education, is the reverent expressive reading of the text because we want to engage them. And so that’s why she would read part of the commentary and set the scene for them so that they’re already imagining what the passage is going to be talking about.

And then the students narrate. And this is the unique thing about Bible lessons. She said in language as close to the Bible text as possible. So we’re training them to deal with the Bible a little differently than their other books they’re going to be doing. Charlotte Mason says, and this is a note from the programmes, it’s on every programme, “in all cases, the Bible text must be read and narrated without interruptions”. So don’t add explanation, don’t do your little sidebars, mom and dad. Don’t ask them questions or anything like that. Don’t let their questions come between the reading and the narration. That has to happen together at this age.

And then at the wrap of the lesson, there’s going to be some discussion. And we want to give the children some new thought of God. So we want to do this…that’s the overall objective, and I’ll talk more about that in a minute. But we’re not preaching at them. We’re not trying to apply this lesson that is so clear in the text to a child who might really need to learn that lesson, right? We want to give them some new thought of God.  And those often come from the commentary. And I would say that is the strength he will often bring out. “This is the point to be born in mind” or “impress upon the children this”. And I have been shocked and sometimes I think, that’s dumb, you know? And then that is what gets my child’s attention. And they continually bring that up from there on out. So I think that he truly was gifted and Charlotte Mason did as well.

So the Bible itself should be applying the lesson, the moral lesson to our children, right? We’re not going to be doing that. And if they bring it up and want to discuss it, great. So some discussion at the end. And then in volume one, Charlotte Mason talks about maybe looking at a painter by some masterful artist who is going to give them a reverent idea or just a different picture of it. So that could happen occasionally.

So that’s kind of your pieces, you can see it follows a basic structure, but it’s not something rigid that every single one of those has to happen every time. You do not need a picture every single lesson or whatever.

So as far as our lesson objectives, this kind of goes for the whole subject as well as each lesson. But like I said, new thoughts of God, that is the idea that we want to convey to them. We also want them to gain familiarity with the Bible text and its language. And again, that’s why we require them to narrate in language as close to scripture as possible. We also want to interest our children in the geography, the history, and the customs of the Bible, because that really helps us get a good framework for understanding the context of it. And so this is just a slow, methodical 10 verses, you know, about at a time, a slow chewing on the passage. But again, just like you said, Nicole, it’s not here and there and slip shot and, you know, pick and choose. It is a consecutive, she called it the gradually unfolding picture of scripture, right? The whole narrative.

So as far as teacher prep, my advice to you is be ready for this lesson. First of the day, it’s usually easy to like, okay, it’ll get us off on a good footing. But I find it helpful to read the passage and the commentary ahead of time. And the commentary is for the teacher, but there are times we might read a portion of it to the kids. And so from there, I will know, hey, you know what would really get my child’s attention is to find a map of this. You know, we’re talking forces coming from this side of the valley and from this, they’re meeting and having a battle. Like, let’s get an actual map of what this area is. We’re somewhere on a journey. Let’s show how far it is from Canaan down to Egypt or something like that.

But I think most importantly, we need to be in tune with the divine teacher. And I may need to discuss what my kids have brought up instead of what I had planned for the day. And that often happens, you know, and because we are encouraging them to dig into the Bible and relate to it themselves. 

So just to wrap up my portion of this, I wanted to share the resources. So these commentaries are by John Paterson Smyth.  Charlotte Mason extols them extensively in I believe all of the volumes that she talks about Bible lessons, one, three and six. And it was from these commentaries that she chose which passages to assign. So when we have on our Bible rotation, the passages from the commentary and then we tell you what passage, or what books of the Bible are covered or chapters, it’s not the whole of those chapters. And it’s in the order that Paterson Smyth, which when you get to the Kings is very different than how we would read the book of the kings in First and Second Samuel. 

And so this was what was assigned on the program. And you would have to go through the commentary to figure out which passages you were to read. And that was with the omissions that would be made so that we are not dwelling on the things that they’re age appropriately not able to dwell on or cannot narrate, like genealogies. Yeah, just keep that in mind. So go by this. And so, you have to read this as a teacher ahead of time to know our Bible…well, I’ll talk about that in a minute. 

OK, this is something that Charlotte Mason talks about having that would be good for children to own individual books of the Bible bound. She talks about that in volume one. I find it really helpful for me to do my lessons using a scripture journal. So this is just the Gospel of Matthew. And I can mark in here. I can highlight. I can write my notes of what I want to bring out or like remember here’s the map…that is how I prep. I actually write it in here but we just are reading this and it’s nice to keep on my school cart just by itself. 

We do have or I have created some Bible picture portfolios that coordinate with Charlotte Mason’s Bible rotation for Forms 1 & 2 and do curate some pictures that go along with the stories that you’ll be reading in a term but you could also use a good, well, here’s a two set or a double set. The Bible in Art, here’s the New Testament and the Old Testament. These are by Richard Muhlberger, I believe. Yes, Richard Muhlberger. But there’s lots of other books like that. And so I will often pull a picture and I make a note of that. 

So here is our Bible rotation that we have on our website. You can access this for free and we’ll have a link in the show notes. And that just shows you how much was covered in the term, but again, that was assigned from the Paterson Smyth commentary. And then if you really want some help with your lessons, we have gone through and made Bible lesson breakdowns, which coordinate the passages from the Bible. We break them down. So here’s exactly which verses you’ll read each lesson. And we took those from the commentary and also linked to the chapter. So you can prepare that portion. 

And finally, we do, this was, think, our very first product.  Schedule cards. We have these for each form level and if you want to know how I know Bible is four times a week for 15 minutes. We have these scaled schedule cards. You just cut them apart and they have a timeline so you know, okay, I haven’t gone over my maximum amount of lesson time for this day and helps you build your own schedule.  I encourage people to if you have multiple children print those off in different colored paper for each form just to help you not lose your mind. 

Liz
Which we definitely need. 

Emily
Yeah, mom you’re gonna talk about some common questions people have. 

Liz
Yeah because I can hear them even, you know, through the cyberspace here, you know, and I definitely talk to hundreds of moms every year. So I know some of the common hiccups, trepidations, stumbling blocks that we encounter. And one of them, I think, always with Charlotte Mason, is adding to what she says or taking away from what she says to do. 

So I have found over 30 years of doing Charlotte Mason, she was pretty trustworthy. And after all her years of teaching, she knew what could be done in the lesson. But one of the common things I think probably the worst thing we do is just to come to this lesson unprepared. And it does not take very much time to read those 10 or so verses and the little short notes that are in the Paterson Smyth commentary. And it makes all the difference with the children. They know when you’re ready and when you’re not. 

And another thing I find is just leaving out that whole discussion that Emily is talking about. It is such a rich time with our children and, you know, to read and narrate is a three or four minute process. You have a good 10 or 12 minutes to have conversations that are going to go into their heart and mind for the rest of their life. So skipping that conversation…I think one of the main reasons people often feel they need to besides being unprepared is simply that “all my children are too young to have any theological questions”. Well, I find that the younger they are, the more theological their questions are. Anyway, I just would encourage you never to skip the discussion time at all. 

And another common problem I find is that many times a mom feels that, or even the dad, that the dad should do the Bible lesson, you know, for the school because in the family they generally do the Bible teaching or sometimes they’re even pastors. I think it’s wonderful for dads to teach the lesson, but they should kind of understand what her point for this lesson was. It may be very different from the way you normally would teach a Bible lesson with your children. 

And I think one of the biggest issues is reading too much, not following the guidelines of the passages she actually offers. So we ignore the things that she omits and we read way too much content to them. 

I don’t know. Can you think of anything else that is just a really common stumbling block here? 

Emily
One we brought up last week that I just want to reiterate here that these are Bible lessons for school and it is not replaced by devotional time.

Liz
It’s very different likely from what you do in your family. 

Emily
I think the other thing is, if you go to a church with expository preaching and you want to align, well, at home, we’re going to study this because we’re doing this in church and it falls outside of the scope that you laid out, Nicole, of what your children would be covering. I think you’re really messing with the whole picture. And we’ve talked about that in the past few episodes, too. And since that may be wonderful to do for your family reading, please go ahead and do that to prepare yourselves. 

Liz
Supplemental to school. 

Emily
Yes, I think we wouldn’t deviate from the lessons. 

Liz
Another thing that just occurred to me is that we have a tendency to say, you know, this commentary was written by someone of a faith persuasion that isn’t mine. And I just want to encourage you, you know, this is not to give all the commentary information that you would get as an adult. And that his purpose really was to help the teacher to bring some vital things out from the passage that’s under study. 

Emily
And that’s what you will see. It is very, he was an Anglican pastor, but Anglicans are known for the middle way. Like they are really kind of middle of the road. But he is not deviating into very doctrinal, denominational issues. It is the big teaching, the big idea of Matthew, the big idea of Luke. Well, he doesn’t do one on Luke, but Mark or whatever it is. And remember, you’re not reading it all to your children. So if there’s something in there you disagree with, great. Don’t talk about that. 

Liz
That’s why you read it ahead of time so you don’t get stuck. 

Emily
But his little descriptive passages in which he says “the point to bear in mind” or “bring this home to the children,” those are the parts to not miss.

Thank you for joining the conversation today. Next time, we are going to look at Bible lessons for forms three and four, which is grades seven through nine, as students go deeper into the Bible as they mature as persons. We have included links to all of the resources that we mentioned today, along with a podcast episode demonstrating the three of us doing a form one Bible lesson. And for the rest of the season we’re inviting you to read along with us. So that reading schedule I mentioned before is also in the show notes. We hope you do as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method.

Why did Charlotte Mason think that the Bible was the most important subject in a child’s school lessons? What portions of the Bible are appropriate for children to read? And why should I include Bible as a lesson if our family already does regular Bible reading or devotions? In today’s podcast we are tackling these questions and more as we look at the Bible as a school subject in the Charlotte Mason curriculum.

Listen Now:

Charlotte Mason, Volume 6 (Amazon) (Living Book Press – use code DELECTABLE for 10% off!)

ADE Vol 6, Chapt 10 Reading List

Episode 17: Bible 2.0

ADE on YouTube

Emily
Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I’m Emily Kiser and I’m here with…

Liz
…Liz Cottrill…

Nicole
…and Nicole Williams. 

Emily
This season, we are exploring a Charlotte Mason curriculum and we invite you to read along with us from volume six of chapter 10. Check out the reading schedule in our show notes to follow along. Today we are beginning our series on Charlotte Mason Bible lessons. 

So Charlotte Mason categorized all knowledge that was due to a child in the Charlotte Mason curriculum in three areas. She called it knowledge of God, knowledge of man, and knowledge of the universe. And she opens up this section of chapter 10 by saying that it is knowledge of God that is “most important, indispensable, and most happy making”. She calls knowledge of God a “firstborn affinity”, recognizing that every person is born wanting to know God.  In fact, she says, “he is a child of God whose supreme desire and glory it is to know about and to know his almighty father”. So this knowledge, she believed, comes directly from the Bible, a literary form like we’ve been talking about. And it was actually from the Bible that Charlotte Mason derived her code of education, what gave her the foundational ideas of her philosophy. She found it in the Gospels summarized in: “let the little children come to me, offend not, despise not, and hinder not one of these little ones”. And she tells us that the most fatal way of despising the child is to overlook and make light of his natural relationship with Almighty God.

So as we’ve been talking about, education is the science of relations. It’s his duty to build relationships in as many directions, and all children have it in them and desire to know. And so that, since this is their primary desire to know God and to know about him, she wanted to give them the Bible.

She says that we should fill their imaginations with pictures, their minds nourished upon the words of the gradually unfolding story of the scriptures. And so she encouraged us to read full translations, not story Bibles, not retellings, because she thought that those talk down to children, that even six year olds were very capable of taking in ideas from the Bible itself. And I would have to agree with that after watching many students, not just my own children, come to their Bible lessons and just be fed.

She believed that Bible lessons were their chief lessons. And so they were the first lesson of the day. She thought that unconsciously or subconsciously taught them that they were the most important thing. It’s the only thing on the timetable that is consistent across the week, right? And so that they would look on them as their most important lessons. And the ultimate goal of Bible lessons is that students would know the Bible and having studied the word closely would know God and also how to seek him for the rest of their lives. Wonderful. 

Nicole
It’s so huge. 

Liz
Talk about a seed planted. 

Emily
So, Nicole, why don’t you tell us about the normal way in which we learn about the Bible, not in a Charlotte Mason curriculum.

Nicole
Well…

Liz
Here and there and anywhere, right?

Nicole
Here and there, family devotions, just little…little scraps kind of of it over time, maybe through our Sunday school lessons and things like that. 

Emily
And so against that, what is the whole scope of what my lessons look like for a Charlotte Mason? 

Nicole
Totally different. So this is really interesting, the way that Charlotte Mason very deliberately lays out this subject over the course of all of the years of their schooling. 

So in forms one and two, and that is six years, that’s grades one through six, they begin with the teacher reading to the student, the narrative portions of the Old Testament and the synoptic gospels in the New Testament. And these are the like, foundational. They’re just great foundational stories – creation, the patriarchs, the Exodus, the life of Christ. And that this is really meant to stir wonder in the child and kind of get these stories in them. And we’re going to go into more detail in each individual episode, but I just want to point out that the students would do this twice. They would read through these things two times, which really, when you think of the developmental level of your first grader compared to your sixth grader there’s so much wisdom in that. 

And then in forms three and four, which is your grade seventh, eighth and ninth, they’re really starting to have some independence here. And with that in mind, she wanted them to start reading for themselves. This was not a group activity anymore. They did use a resource, however, which we’ll talk about later that allowed them to read it with omissions because in form one and two, the mom would make admissions where it was necessary or the teacher who was teaching. But now those are made for them so they can just work and deal with the material directly. So at this time, they walk through the narrative chronologically again with the addition of the prophets. So they are adding to that. And then in the New Testament, they are reading Acts and John. 

But lest you think that they are going to leave out the synoptic gospels, this is where they start using a resource that is really special. They’re introduced to The Savior of the World. And The Savior of the World is poems that Charlotte Mason wrote, and it’s used in conjunction with a harmonized version of the gospels. And so they are slowing down, they are really dealing with each of those stories that they’ve learned for years, but now they’re really slowing down and dealing with them more deeply. 

And then in forms five and six, they again are reading these full books of scripture, going back through, but as well as the prophets they’re reading the wisdom literature, they’re reading the epistles… Here they’re reading, it’s more volume and more depth. Where maybe some of those omissions happened in the lower forms, there are reading more of that. And then at that point, they are completing the whole of the New Testament and everything but four books of the Old Testament. So they are really getting this broad scope over the course of their education. At this age, too, in forms five and six – and again, this is 10th, 11th, and 12th grade – they’re exploring more complex theology at this point, the poetic expression through The Savior of the World, they’re still reading that. They’ve got commentaries and spiritual biographies, all kinds of things. 

So I hope you can see that this is not a smattering of Bible or kind of an undirected list, but a very carefully considered journey through scripture through all these 12 years. She took really into consideration, Charlotte Mason did, the content that was appropriate for their age and the timing of that also. So yeah, 12 years and this slow and steady building. I think of it, I just had this mental picture as I was preparing this of these circles that kind of get bigger and longer and wider and that it just keeps growing on itself. 

Emily
So I just, every time I think about her Bible Rotation, I just think it’s so brilliant. And I’ve seen how it is so appropriate at each level. Like things I would think, they’re not ready for that, that they just take in hand. And my goodness, the theological ideas that my kids bring up when we do Bible lessons, it’s my favorite. But I’m also quite jealous that it was taking my whole adult life to arrive at some semblance, probably not even as thorough, through my own study, and they’re going to leave high school…

Liz
Yeah, and it is not a haphazard a little of this and a little of that. She has a trajectory that she’s on and they’re learning the main stories first and upon that foundation they base all the rest of it because it’s a huge book. You talk about living books. This is the quintessential living book, right? And, you know, it is actually the most widely read book in all of history and it still is, all over the world. And it’s also been so influential in especially the Western civilization, but increasingly throughout the world. Even if you don’t believe in God or believe that this is the book that tells about him, you have to admit that the laws that you believe in, the human rights, all kinds of cultural ideas, proceed from this particular living book. 

And I think that one of the things we have to understand is that this subject, it’s a school subject, okay? So this is independent from any other family participation with the Bible that you might have devotional or readings that your family does regularly. 

Emily
All good. 

Liz
All good. All essential. Keep on going. But the Bible lesson was a school subject. And so she is definitely making this a part of the curriculum. And it’s almost a curriculum in itself, as she says. And most of us, like Emily said, were much older to even begin to get a clue as to its inner workings. I think I was in college before I realized that Daniel knew who David and Joseph were. I had a lot of knowledge that was all scattered and mixed together, kind of like my public school education, actually. But the Bible speaks to every age. And by that, I mean every historic age. It has, for all time, spoken to men and individual ages from three-year-olds to 93-year-olds. You know? 

Emily

Yeah.

Nicole
Charlotte Mason said that religion has two aspects, the attitude of the will towards God, which confused me a minute. We’ll look at that. And the perception of God, which comes from a gradual, slow growing comprehension of the Divine dealing with men. 

So that first one, that the will’s attitude speaks to how the child sees themselves in relation to God. We’re thinking of reverence, obedience, humility. And these are all will-based. So that’s that first part. And then that second part is the perception of God that comes from primarily the stories and especially from the Old Testament. And Miss Mason, she really makes a bold claim with regard to this. She says the New Testament teaching not grounded in the Old often fails to produce a deep and personal thought of God.

Emily
I would so agree with that. I mean, I was much more familiar with the New Testament, but it seems like every Bible study I do is rooted in the Old Testament. And the more I am aware of the Old Testament, the more amazed I am at God’s patience and his long suffering and his faithfulness. 

Liz
It’s one story.

Nicole
Right. And that’s really what she’s saying is without the history, without the poetry, without the struggle, without the long view of God’s dealing with man, we miss that panoramic picture of God and how he works in the world and how he works with us. 

Emily
Yeah, that’s wonderful.

Thanks for joining the conversation today. Next time, we are going to begin to explore exactly how Bible lessons look in each set of forms, or as we would call them, grades or grade levels, in the Charlotte Mason Method. In the meantime, if you’d like to go deeper, we have previously recorded an episode on the Bible, and that is episode number 17. And you can find a link to that in the show notes, as well as our reading schedule. If you’d like to read along with us, we’ll have the page numbers that we’re going to be looking at very closely each episode we produce an episode this season. 

Thanks for reading along with us as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method.

Are you lacking confidence in choosing your Charlotte Mason curriculum? In today’s podcast we are talking about what a Charlotte Mason curriculum isn’t by examining the principles Miss Mason gave us, so we can spread the feast of a living education with confidence.

Listen Now:

Charlotte Mason, Volume 6 (Amazon) (Living Book Press – use code DELECTABLE for 10% off!)

ADE Vol 6, Chapt 10 Reading List

Episodes on the curriculum:

• Episode 193: The Interdependence of a CM Curriculum
• Episode 266: The Utility of the Charlotte Mason Method
• Episode 280: The Simplicity of the Charlotte Mason Method

Episode 168: Habit Training

Episode 264: The Time-Table

ADE on YouTube

Emily
Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I’m Emily Kiser and I’m here with…

Liz
…Liz Cottrill…

Nicole
…and Nicole Williams. 

Emily
And all season, we are considering a Charlotte Mason curriculum. And we invite you to read along with us from chapter 10 of volume 6. You’ll find a link to the reading schedule in the show notes.

Last week we discussed the five principles that are the foundation, in Charlotte Mason’s own opinion, of a true Charlotte Mason curriculum. And from these, Charlotte Mason believed that there is an inherent principle, or “natural law”, she calls it, that should govern the choice of our students. So we must give them the knowledge that is due to them.

And that knowledge must be various because they are born persons with desires to know about all kinds of things and ideas, and education is really their building of relationships in as many directions as possible…and that each person is capable of getting this sort of knowledge especially when it is taken in in a literary form and learned through narration.

But Charlotte Mason had some further cautions for us about what a curriculum is not or should not be. And first, she says it is not utilitarian. 

Nicole
She really begins this section by turning many of our educational assumptions on their heads. So one of the things she points out here is that an education that’s built on preparing for exams leaves the child, she said, “less intelligent and less informed, except perhaps” – she gave a caveat – “in Latin and math.” So that’s what all of us came from, right? That was our education. And she’s saying that actually is a problem.  And it really flies in the face of our modern instinct to evaluate education based on test scores. But she really warned that that impoverished the children. So we can’t do that. 

But then, yes, she takes aim then at a deeply rooted idea of educating children for their future prospects, like their future job. And in particular, she talked about educating the boys to gentlemanly pursuits or towards the traits, one or the other. But you know, we do a very similar thing because in schools today, children are required in the ninth grade to choose what career they intend to go in so that their coursework can be aligned around that. And she just said, the education we offer is too utilitarian, like you said. 

So when we- 

Emily
Utilitarian meaning useful, right? 

Nicole
Right, right. So when we reduce a child’s education to what is useful, it doesn’t serve, like maybe it’s serving, we think it’s serving a practical end, but it’s not honoring the whole personhood of that child. 

Emily
I think about the end of volume six, it’s actually in the second book that has a whole, well, letter – I think it was originally published in the Times of London – about the scope of continuation schools. And she was advocating that we need to give these trades people something to think about. So that while they’re doing their factory job, so that they’re going to have a mental stimulation they can think about, oh, the novel that I was reading last night, or the new thing that I’m learning. 

Liz
Otherwise, what is the purpose of Latin or Shakespeare? We think, well, they’re never going to use that. That is a utilitarian way of thinking. 

Emily
Yeah. And I do really see this every single year with Charlotte Mason educators.  We may be convinced that children are born persons and we need to spread this wide feast, but I think at the root, and it’s probably because of our own education and just really our society at large, we still have so much fear that they’re going to actually be able to get into college. 

Nicole
Right. 

Emily
Because if they don’t get into college, they’re not going to get a good job. And so it really, really is so saturated into us, isn’t it? 

Nicole
It is. I was thinking the same thing. Fear. It’s fear. And it’s that we are looking at these young people and we are thinking, how are you going to support yourself? We’re not having faith that we got there, but we can give them something so much better than we had and they will get there too. 

Emily
Well, next Charlotte Mason said a curriculum is not or should not be selectively chosen.  And this also steps on a lot of our toes, think. She said that it doesn’t cater to utilitarian subjects, just as you were talking about, Nicole, so that they can get good jobs when they grow up, right? But it also doesn’t cater to our children’s likes and dislikes. These are the emails… 

Liz
Or our dislikes. Yes, yes. Or even their whims. You know, like they have an absolute interest in this.  Our natural desire is to want to feed that, especially home educators. 

Nicole
Right. 

Emily
We think this is one of the positives about this. But Charlotte Mason said, “spread an abundant and delicate feast in the programs and each small guest assimilates what he can. All sit down to the same feast and each one gets according to his needs and powers.” So our children, they don’t know what they’re going to love. 

I think about myself. You know, I went to a liberal arts college and had to take multiple classes I never would have signed up for otherwise and found some abiding interests to this day that I love. So we don’t, they don’t know what they want really, especially putting the reins in your six year old’s hands, who likes to study all about, I don’t even know what, you know, nothing that’s good for him, right? 

But also rooted in this is she admonished us that we don’t know what God is preparing them for, right? We can’t see into the future, how each person is going to find their use in the world, like she says. And so we are instead giving them this wide and broad feast that is not selected to each child. It’s the same feast for all the children as she said, right? And that is enabling them to build relationships in as many directions as physically and humanly possible for each of them, right? And then that also helps them expand their horizon and relate to others who don’t necessarily have the same ideas and interests and vision of life. Charlotte Mason says, “it is a wide programme founded on the educational rights of man. Wide, but we may not say it is impossible, nor may we pick and choose and educate him in this direction, but not in that. Our part, it seems to me, is to give a child a vital hold upon as many as possible of those wide relationships proper to him.” 

So a Charlotte Mason curriculum is going to be a vital cohesive whole, right? Every single practice or how to do each kind of lesson, every single lesson flows out of these fundamental principles that she has laid out for us. We can’t just choose isolated subject curriculum. How I’m using “curriculum” is how we normally think about it, but subject material, right? Like we can’t say, I’m going to do this for math and this for grammar and this…and if it’s not coming from a Charlotte Mason philosophy, the philosophy is an applied philosophy, the principles have to flow out into the practices. She says “there is no part of a child’s work at home or at school without an informing principle underlying it”. 

And so we have to realize that really every resource, every material out there already has some kind of educational philosophy. You can’t help having an educational philosophy. And we have already seen how deeply rooted the one we’ve been brought up in is, and still even affects us even after we’ve been convinced to go a different direction. Charlotte Mason’s curriculum programs are integrated in deep ways. I think we even do a disservice when we pick and choose from different Charlotte Mason “curriculum”. Right? Because each curriculum out there is a whole subject of study and it’s trying to accomplish these things that she laid out for us, right? Did you have something you wanted to add? 

Liz
Well, I’m just thinking about our online classes and co-ops that often clash too. 

Emily
I have known even, you know, different local schools…and students really pick up on it, especially if they’ve been educated in a Charlotte Mason way. They know that the curriculum itself is respecting them as persons. And when they are forced to do maybe a more textbook approach for some subjects, they feel it and can resent it, right? So just keep that in mind as you’re jumping around, even from year to year, you’re missing that whole feast, because it’s not just within a year of a child’s education that’s cohesive. It’s the whole scope of their 12 years or however many they’re being educated at our homes.

As Miss Kitching, who was Charlotte Mason’s, well, she was her right hand woman, actually. And then she became her successor for the Parents Union School. She wrote, “every book and every subject has a niche to fill. It cannot stand alone, nor can it be omitted from the program without weakening the whole organism.” She’s not even talking about omitting a whole subject like Swedish Drill, which I did for a year, guys. She’s talking about even every single book in the curriculum, that program that was sent out, was so vital to the work of the whole. 

So that is daunting. It seems like, OK, I don’t have as much leeway as I thought I had. I’m wondering also, I look at those curriculum programs and there’s like 20 some subjects on there. How in the world are we supposed to accomplish all of this?

Liz
This is why we call it a feast. And we’ve already warned you that we say the food terminology a lot because it’s a great analogy with Charlotte Mason. But you just think of a big banquet table that has all kinds of delicious things, and some things maybe don’t look so great, but then when you eat them, you’re like, I want some more of that. So the wide curriculum might be 20 or more subjects. And that does seem daunting to us because we can only wrap our mind around maybe three or four things at a time.

But it is all possible because it’s taken in in small doses. It’s because of the short hours that they have, limited time every morning. And there’s no homework afterwards. But she said that the short lessons and especially the use of narration multiply time, right? In fact, she says in one place, it quadruples the time the teacher has to cover a subject with a student or present it. And a lot of it is based on the fact that narration means the child is building the habit of attention. So full attention, no time to dawdle, no time to dilly-dally causes a lot more learning. They’re always listening to the reading or reading with the expectation that at the end of the reading, they must narrate or tell back what they understand. 

And we accomplish this with a time-table, right? Because there’s no way to get through 10 or 12 subjects in two and a half or three hours every day without having a guide. I think of it as the curbs on the road or the traffic signs that help keep pointing you in the right direction. This is where you turn. I actually just said to a mom yesterday, the time-table is kind of like our GPS for school.

Emily
Yeah, it is for sure. And Charlotte Mason said in her first volume, when she’s literally talking about the habit of attention, that the time-table is the very first principle of education upon which a well-ordered school room is built. And so, like we mentioned, the principles that Charlotte Mason talks about are not confined to her short synopsis. There are principles throughout her volumes. 

Another teacher, actually, Charlotte Mason wrote a paper called “Education Theory” and that was the first part and then Miss Drury wrote “Practice” and in that paper she said “a time-table punctually adhered to is one secret of the carrying out of the program in its great variety, partly explains its efficacy.” She’s talking about the variety of the time-table. Not only is it keeping us to those short lessons “Yep. Oh Bible’s done. We move on to the next thing in it.” You do feel like that all day long but that is giving the child’s brain a break, right? To attend to something that is like a listening lesson is a different kind of mental faculty or mental process than to attend to their math lesson. And so just by switching frequently to various subjects, various mental skills, it gives their brain breaks and it doesn’t over fatigue them. And that enables them to, for two and a half to four hours, depending on their age, really focus on the thing, the lesson at hand.

Liz
And no one, not even an adult can focus for even as long as 30 minutes straight. So this is just being respectful of a child’s young mind. Attention is developed over time. They don’t have long attention, but we can make powerful use of the short amount that they do have if it is full of really good things. And basically, she said, every lesson with a living book must be narrated and a lesson without a narration is wasted. So they have that expectation and that helps them pay attention and then the narration helps them absorb what they’ve just taken in. 

Emily
So when we’re talking about short lessons, some of them are as short as about 10 minutes and some of them are as long as 40 in the highest forms. So that’s still a shorter lesson than any of our high school classes, right? And those 40 minute lessons for high schoolers, they still have some short lessons in between there to help vary their time. So when we think about what a Charl Mason curriculum is not, it’s not going to be sitting at your math lesson until it gets done, regardless of what the time-table says. 

Liz
We’re moving with the clock and the clock marches on whether we like it or not. 

Emily
And it’s going to have various, every day is going look different.  It’s going to have these short lessons and we’re going to require narration, not fill in the blank worksheets, right? So those are some markers to look at.

Emily
Thanks for joining the conversation today. If you’d like to go deeper on any of the topics that we touched on today, we have some episodes that you might like. Numbers 193, 266, and 280 talk about the cohesiveness of a Charlotte Mason curriculum. We have an episode on habit training, episode number 168, and specifically on the time-table, if you’re wanting to develop the habit of attention. The time-table episode is 264.

And next week, we are going to begin our series on Charlotte Mason Bible lessons as we continue to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method.